November 2019 WAPL Transcript

Nick Noel: (Music) Hello everybody, and welcome to the WAPLcast for November 1st, 2019. My name is Nick Noel and I'm an instructional designer with the Digital Experience Team in MSUIT. Today on the WAPLcast we have a lot of great information for you so we really hope that you take the time to listen if you weren't able to make it.

Nick Noel: First, we have an update from the Eli Broad College of Business that Jeremy Van Hoff provides about their efforts when it comes to accessibility. Next we have a reminder about the Accessible Learning Conference, which at the time of this recording is next week, so make sure you sign up and check it out. After that, we have two updates from James Bender, one about the web accessibility working group, and the other about Deque University. (Music)

Nick Noel: And finally Brooke Knapp provides some much needed information. First, what is an SLA with DigitalX? Kinds of walks through what that service level agreement processes and then finally some legal updates in the accessibility space. So we want to thank everybody who was able to make it out. We want to thank you for listening and we'll see you back here next time.

Nate Evans: Welcome to WAPL meeting number 47. It's November 1st, 2019. What an awesome space. Thank you Jeremy for hosting. This is fantastic. Next time maybe at the Panera?

Jeremy: Yeah.

Nate Evans: So we can include bagels?

Jeremy: Yeah.

Nate Evans: Awesome. All right. I'm not going to waste any time up here. I'm going to hand the mic over to Jeremy to share a little bit about the digital accessibility program happening in Eli Broad Business College.

Jeremy: I would just encourage you, first of all to, if you hadn't done so already, to take a look around the building. It's pretty cool. Some features here, these have nothing to do with digital accessibility, but these rooms are designed for team and case teaching. So it's a half parliamentary style. There's four or five classrooms like this in the building. Some of them like this one, you'll notice have two tiers on the same level, so students can like flip around and work collaboratively backwards. Some don't have that.

Jeremy: The rooms have all the nice state of the art technology and that we've got wireless projection, dual display up here and all kinds of other bells and whistles too. Also in the building there is a pair of real classrooms and those also have the latest tech and everything of course. And there's probably 30 plus individual team rooms that you'll see ringing the first and second floor. They're probably pretty heavily populated already with students, and that's by design. Those are student facing rooms for teamwork and small group work and whatever. And they're bookable by the students. Students can walk up and use the touch screen to book same day. Grad students can book them up to a week in advance and then I can... faculty can book them as well.

Jeremy: We also on the ground floor have obviously the Panera and next to that there's the entrepreneurship lab, which doesn't really look like a lab unless the students are in there. It's just a flat classroom, completely flat and mobile and whatever. And there's a bunch of other cool spaces around here too. There's also, and it's tucked away on the ground floor, behind more industrial looking gray doors. There's a whole event space that is bookable and for bigger events and that kind of thing.

Jeremy: Okay, so that's just about the space and I would encourage you, like I said, to take a look and get to know it if you haven't. Let me log in. Sorry, I froze up. Here in Broad. we've been working, my position was created two and a half years ago to primarily to look at accessibility on the core side. My role has grown well beyond that. But we have, because there is the dedicated position in the building looking at exclusively course accessibility, course content accessibility, we have a pretty good structure in place.

Jeremy: So I can walk you through that structure pretty briefly. HDMI. But I don't want to linger too long on that because it's not really anything that's super revolutionary. What I want to talk about is the notion that we're trying to embrace now, which is that accessibility is part of diversity, equity and inclusion. And our ability to frame it that way helps us to further our accessibility initiatives.

Jeremy: PowerPoint now has automatic captioning. They're not super accurate. You can see this as a network issue. If I were connected to the network, it would be captioning me automatically. It's cool. UDL has three principles that underlie it and they are that people arrive at the same location by different pathways. Right? That's not real complicated. But those pathways are physical, mental, moral, ethical, professional, biological, you name it. When they get there, when they get where they're going, the students are going to define success, not students, people are going to define success in vastly different ways, and that's in part because they have vastly different competencies and abilities.

Jeremy: So that's the Jaggedness principle. That's the second of the three UDL principles that everyone is a combination of complex traits physical, cognitive, ethical, biological, you name it. And we are all better than average on some of those and worse than average on some of those. And the concept of teaching to the middle or designing to the middle is flawed because no one is average, there's too much complexity and no one is an average person.

Jeremy: So if you're a web developer or a teacher, whatever your end product is, you can't design it for your preconceived notion of the typical or the average. You have to design it while embracing this notion that we are all complex. And the final of the UDL principles is context that we all have the set of, if then signatures that look like different... that take the notion of a trait and put it within context. So you might say that LeBron James is an excellent athlete, right? Well, actually let's use a different one that I know to be true. You might say that Michael Jordan is an excellent athlete, right? But Michael Jordan famously could not swim, right? So you put him in a pool and all of a sudden he's not the world's greatest athlete. Not in that context.

Jeremy: So there's a physical example of someone being really good at something or public speaking. You might say you're really not comfortable speaking in front of crowds. And in a typical context for you, you're not willing to get up in front of a group of people and talk. But after four shots of Jameson, your context might be a little different and your body might be more comfortable in a group, right? So context matters. And when you think about the Jaggedness of people, you also have to realize that that Jaggedness is fungible and changes as people's contexts change, right? So this then makes design really, really complicated.

Jeremy: One thing that a group of us had been working on is this notion of the whole Spartan. This is the learning design strategy of the university with us putting, us being a few of us here in the room, putting number one in before. So we want all Spartans to feel safe and healthy in whatever their environment, whatever their context, because we know that context matters. The first thing that we can do, especially in light of the last few years, is ensure that this is a safe and healthy place.

Jeremy: Once we have a safe and healthy environment, then we can see is learning happening in that space? If not, let's get learning happening, then we can say is that learning present? Is it authentic? If it's authentic, is it accessible? Inclusive? Excellent? And if it's all of those things, is it sustainable? So that's the learning design strategy in a nutshell. The critical piece being that we need to create an environment. We need to create a context where everyone's jaggedness has the best chance of success.

Jeremy: So I'm trying hard with a couple of others here on campus to frame the sense, the notion of accessibility in this broader lens of diversity, equity and inclusion. And Steven put me onto this. It's a book by two people I can't... Do know? Lawsky and...

Steven: Ginsburg.

Jeremy: Ginsburg. Lawsky and Ginsburg, Culturally Responsive Teaching. The bullets there are how they define culturally responsive teaching. Now, I haven't been talking through my slides because the content of them hasn't been super critical. But here I'm going to do so. So I've got about nine bullets on this slide. A culturally responsive teacher will provide a partial outline for students to fill in. We'll write clearly knowing that cursive might be difficult. We'll allow students to record lecture, audio. We'll provide visual illustration supplements, we'll use concrete examples in analogies. And we'll elicit those analogies and examples from students so that they are culturally relevant to everyone in the room.

Jeremy: They'll provide connections to assign readings. They'll allow students to ask questions and they'll allow students to compare notes and work in small groups, that is culturally responsive teaching. And that bulleted list was created as a guideline for teachers who want to have to fully address the diversity of their students. My argument is, all of those things speak to an accessible classroom as well. And for those of you in the room who don't teach, they speak to an accessible environment, whatever the environment is that you're creating. Right?

Jeremy: So, I mean, you can reframe this outside of the world of education, right? But provide a partial outline for students. I mean, in a classroom. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. If you're designing a website, what we're basically talking about is, is this something that a screen any of you can read? Is there an existing underlying architecture that is an outline, right? Are you writing clearly? Well here, we know visual clarity is critical for a number of reasons, right? Is there a way for students to record lecture, audio? What that means is students can revisit, right? If you've got a student who's an English language learner or you have an accent and the students can can't fully understand on first pass, this just gives you a chance as a student to revisit the content.

Jeremy: In whatever environment you're creating, do you allow for that repetition and that redundancy? All these things, right? Take a look at that and I can share this out with you. And they all apply to whatever it is you're doing in the world of accessibility. So Steven and I realized that this notion of universal design creates a really muddy, muddy problem. And we wanted to give it a framework that reflected that muddiness.

Jeremy: So here on the screen we've got a series of dots that are slightly misaligned and they all have curvy arrows pointing off of them and they're pointing at a number of slightly coalesced X's. So the dots represent your user or your student. And the misalignment represents the Jaggedness in the contexts that those users and students are coming from. The arrows represent the multiple pathways that those users or students are going to use. And the multiple X's at the end are designed to indicate multiple end points that we're all going to define success differently based on our context and our needs.

Jeremy: So whether you're creating a document or a website, some people need... their success is going to be 100% comprehension of 100% of the content in that document. Other people are going to be, "Can I skim this thing in 30 seconds before the Dean asks me about it?" Right? So different endpoints, different successes. Same thing in a classroom. Who are we to say that every student in our entrepreneurship class really finds success to be, "I'm going to graduate and make $1 billion before I'm 30." Right? It's not all about the bottom line.

Jeremy: Sarah is working with the religious studies group to integrate them into the entrepreneurship things so that they can get skillsets in running nonprofits. Well, there's a different endpoint for you, right? The nonprofit notion is going to have a yield, a very different success story for the students who want to run a nonprofit, than the student who wants to make $1 billion, right? So how can the teacher acknowledge that complexity as well?

Jeremy: So really what we're talking about is this is a histogram with the tails highlighted. And what we're saying here is you can't... when you teach to the tails or when you design for the tails, the fear is that you're only helping those on the margins, right? But the reality is that you're helping the entirety of the distribution. And that's universal design, right? But it's also got to go beyond design and it has to be universally implemented. So you need to take all the cultural notions of diversity, equity and inclusion and accessibility. And you have to take a well-designed class or website or document or piece of technology and then you have to implement it in an accessible and inclusive and culturally responsive way. And that's critical.

Jeremy: So here in Broad, again, briefly, our general process is to set a priority list of what needs some love on the accessibility front. Remediate when needed. And we have a student pool that we've hired to do some of that remediative work. But that's not sustainable, if that's where it stops, that's not sustainable because it's very backwards looking and our students would be completely overburdened. Right?

Jeremy: So the, the next steps, and I'm working closely with Sarah to try to get these next steps happening, is to facilitate and train the faculty members so that they can handle the remediation and ideally create content that's accessible and inclusive and culturally responsive from the jump. So all of our students currently are seniors and as they graduate and we're rehiring, we're going to rehire, not technical gophers who can do remediative work, but we're going to hire people who have the capacity to work with faculty, train faculty, help them embrace a more accessible environment.

Jeremy: And we'll have those students then go back and audit the courses rather than do all the work for the teachers. We're just going to go back and audit the courses and then bring the teachers up to speed where needed and document that entire process.

Jeremy: So that's our system, and ultimately what we're saying is to teachers and to the web design team who just rolled out a new website here in their college, work backwards, think of the desired end state and start from there. Right? And in a classroom design a rubric that lets you assess if the students have achieved that desired end state, design route or design activities that allow them to have success on the assessments and do all of it in this culturally inclusive and accessible way. That's our model here. So questions or thoughts or? Alrighty. It's a lot for our group.

Nate Evans: This is fantastic. Thank you, Jeremy. I appreciate you taking the time today. Awesome. Quick hand. Thank you. Thank you for that.

Jeremy: You're on room PC?

Nate Evans: I'm on the room PC. Yes. Awesome. Thank you. In fact, actually I don't know who next up on the agenda we have Accessible Learning Conference on world usability day. We'll start with ALC? Is that you and Kate? Kate and you?

Jeremy: Sure. We'll come back [inaudible 00:18:31].

Kate: It's Jeremy [inaudible 00:18:33].

Jeremy: Yeah. Accessible learning conference, ain't actually one other thing I should do a shout out to because part of this whole redefinition of accessibility is coming off pretty well with a new thing that... Kate, who all in the room is doing this? Raise your hands. The FAF. Faculty Accessibility Follows. So it's Steven K, Sarah. Okay. That's what we got. And RCPD and a few others. We want a smallish internal grant to fund a fellowship program in our three colleges. So Nat, Sally arts and letters and Broad to have five faculty members be accessibility fellows.

Jeremy: So faculty accessibility fellows we're going to-

Kate: Five from each college.

Jeremy: Five from each college. Yes. So 15, we're going to bring them to the accessible learning conference, which I'll get to in a second multiple times and we're going to send them through a series of workshops and sessions and what have you to try to create some accessibility champions in our colleges that can help spread the gospel, if you will. Because again, the issue is one of sustainability. What I just talked about here, I'm not super sustainable, if it's just coming from me all the time. We know that faculty stories are what really are the driver and if we can get faculty members to push this out, then that's great.

Jeremy: Like I said, ALC, Accessible Learning Conference is one of the things that we are going to push these fellows to attend. I would strongly encourage all of you to attend as well. And it's accessiblelearning.org is the website and the agenda for all the sessions is now live. Many of you are presenting, some of you are presenting in the more technology side, some more on the teaching side. The whole theme of this conference this year is storytelling. So it's going to be all about people telling the stories of what works and what doesn't work. Grey, can I tell what your topic is, just as an example. I think it's fun.

Jeremy: He's got a session. Yes. They've got a session where it's... thank you for correcting me, and where it's an old PowerPoint. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but what is it about? 10 years old PowerPoint that they found and I'm going to re project it and say, "Okay, this is where we were 10 years ago and look how far we've come or how far we haven't come," or whatever. But again, it's framed in that storytelling light and a lot of the sessions are going to have that flare to them. So that's just one example. November, 21, 22, in the Kellogg center, accessiblelearning.org. Do you need more?

Nate Evans: That's great.

Jeremy: Okay.

Nate Evans: Thank you. [crosstalk 00:21:29]

Sarah Swierenga: Okay. Good morning. [crosstalk 00:21:47]. I'll just hold them together. Good morning everyone. I'm Sarah Swierenga, director of Usability/Accessibility Research and Consulting, UARC as we are affectionately known. I just wanted to make sure all of you are aware that in a couple of weeks on November 14th, we will be hosting the 17th MSU, Michigan World Usability Day. And this is a really fantastic event. We get speakers on usability and accessibility topics. The main accessibility topic this year I believe is Christopher Patton who's from the Center for Civic Design and it's about accessibility and voting. But also he's going to talk about a couple of projects I believe.

Sarah Swierenga: Other speakers will include Carol Smith, a buddy of mine who is a well known usability experience researcher. She was with IBM for years and then spent a year at Uber and now is at Carnegie Mellon trying out the academic scene. So I got a speaker from a Philip [Torelac 00:22:55] from Thomson Reuters. Kat Hartman who's with the city of Detroit, director of innovation and emerging technology.

Sarah Swierenga: So, and then the other speaker is a future strategist from Ford, Jen an SoVolski, I think is her name. And so she's a customer and industry research Pathfinder for Ford. So it's always an eclectic lineup of who can be there at that day, at that time. But it's the morning sessions will be in the union. Please go to uarc.msu.edu to register. We are over 200 participants registered already and we get a flurry at the last minute. So we do run out of seats. So if you do want to come, please get registered. And if you are a faculty and can give us the names of students who would like to come and hear the presentations, please email me at ouarc@msu.edu. And we do work with faculty to have the students come for free.

Sarah Swierenga: So any questions? Otherwise, I hope some of you will be there. It's a fantastic lineup and a great networking opportunity. In the afternoon, we just host a reception and I should say not food, but we're open... we're there available to chat all afternoon and there's free coffee. So anyway, thank you.

Nate Evans: Excellent. Okay. So we have four additional updates and we before we go into these, I just want to share one thing. So we had an all staff MSUIT meeting yesterday. We have a interim CIO right now, Fred Subtler. And one of the things he said that was incredibly endearing to me that I thought was really cool and honestly resonated with where I'm at and how we've tried to lead digital acts, and previously DCAT one of the things he said was "how are we behaving in ways that allow our partners to find success? Who find success and supporting others successes?"

Nate Evans: And I think that's such a good summary. Something that maybe there's been some cognitive dissonance in the past about how we are perceived as a unit within MSUIT. But as we talk about a few things that are IT related in terms of support and resources, I just appreciate that sentiment and I want to frame that up that way as we get started here for the rest of the updates. So with that I'll invite James Bender up for a couple updates. WAWG is the Web Accessibility Working Group and I'll hand it over to you. James.

James: James, I got a new name Bender. He always calls me Bender no, I'm James. Thank you. Thank you. So the first one is the working group. Who here is a part of the working group? Raise your hands high. So, all right, thank you. Any comments from the working group folks? We've been meeting once a month. We had a card sort a couple of weeks ago. So we're working on a new web access website and we invite any of you from the working group committee to join. We've had a few people show up and it was a very productive meeting I think. So the two folks that were there.

Danielle Fowler: It was really great [inaudible 00:26:28].

James: Can use the mic please. Got it. Okay.

Danielle Fowler: Which one? This one end?

James: That's for the recording.

Danielle Fowler: Hi. So the WAWG is really cool because it's a whole bunch of different people from different areas on campus. So we've got people who are representing faculty, we've got people who are representing staff, we've got people who are representing students. So I think it's going to be really good to make sure that the approach to accessibility MSU is holistic and takes into consideration all the different audiences that are here at MSU working in this area.

James: Thank you. So if you want to get involved in the working group, just reach out to us and let us know and we can add you to the... I have a question. Could you work out here? There you go.

Speaker 10: I'm hurting. Thank you [inaudible 00:27:28] Could you give a refresh on what the purpose or the goals of the Web Accessibility Working Group is? Sorry if this has been covered a million times, but I'd love a refresher.

James: I'll repeat the question. So the purpose and goal of the working group is to help us at DigitalX to design, develop, make sure we give internal and external constituencies what they need. We want to give voice, we don't just want to have DigitalX accessibility team dictate. We want the whole encompass anyone for the WAWG has been invited to the department work group.

James: And you're going to come and we want you to work. That means we need your expertise and help us develop design content that can help you take it back to your colleges and areas, perspective areas. I hope I answered that question?

Speaker 11: How often does it meet?

James: How often do we meet? Once a month. We'll put out an agenda and let you know what the topics are. So right now our web access website is our big one that we're working with and you're going to continue to develop content for that, so we would be looking for tutorials. That's one of our major needs that fall to me. Okay. Thank you for the non verbals, I like that. Make sure I'm tracking very well.

James: And the next update I have is the Deque updates. So anyone here participated in Deque, just by show of hands? It's been a while or recently? Recently. Okay. Yeah. So right now we're offering it free of charge. So I think I announced that last minute but it wasn't caught. Free. I will repeat that again, free of charge. IT is footing the bill for that, right? It's over 25 classes that they offer, portion is in the offer and right now they just added five new ones. So we haven't updated our website yet, am told [inaudible 00:29:14].

James: So we have a little bit of something for everyone. So if you're a content developer, if you're web developer, if you're a person that just one of them, we're all sensitivity the laws, these are the courses that they just put up mobile [inaudible 00:29:27] myself. I'm managing that. So the rule that we have is you only can do one course at a time. So if you one of those individuals who want to sign up for five or six things, you won't get it tonight, because you do one, you finish it, then I'll allow to do another. So you have to put in a search request take, to do that. Any questions about that? Question on top? I can repeat the question [crosstalk 00:30:00].

Speaker 12: So the signup process is we have to send a service request or, yeah, explain the signup process and-

James: So the question is the signup process. If you go to our website, web access and you go at home and tutorials and then you'll see another one that says workshops and then right underneath the workshop is Deque registration. This is a little paragraph. You click a button and a form pops up. We're actually making the form a little easier because we required some information that needed to be put in there, but I think that it would be two things that they're going to need. Originally it was an account number and I'm like, "Why don't you put an account number in if we have to pay for?" So you don't even have to put an account number right now, and it automatically goes into a form. Those are two our service requests. I grab the ticket, I read it.

James: Who's the person? I go and check the Deque's roster. What students are actually in active courses and if you completed it, I'll send a note to the Deque and say, "Yup. Please allow this person, open it up, give them a seat for the course that they request." So it's pretty simple. Less than about two minutes, once you find it. It's not just sticking right on web access. So you got to go to web access help, and then look for tutorials and workshops. It's like the third page and then you'll see something that says Deque. Another question. I'll repeat the question unless they all clear to go.

Nate Evans: Getting the steps. No more baby steps. So what audiences is this hoping for? Is it all staff? Is it the WAPL group, student assistance protection [crosstalk 00:31:30] What are you licensed for?

James: And to my knowledge, I'm looking over at Nate.

Nate Evans: Accessibility is for everyone.

James: Accessibility is for everyone. There's your answer.

Nate Evans: I will say like with an MSU EDU, email address.

James: Okay.

Kate: How many students?

Nate Evans: If you have a student this is a good question. Including students. That was the question. I think if you have a student on your team... Hi, are you the student on the team? What's your name?

Marla: Marla.

Nate Evans: Marla, thanks for coming today. I think the fact is that you're here today means you're invested in this. And that's invested in you, I would say yes, absolutely. You should sign up for that. If you have students that are working on your team, supporting your efforts and that's something you want to do to help support their professional development. Do it. Do it.

James: Thank you. So I asked Jeff this last class up here course I had no clue what that is. Can you maybe talk to us about, do you know anything about that particular topic?

Nate Evans: Yeah. Sure. Angular is a fish, right? Is that right? No, it's programming language, JavaScript based. So that's what peaked my interest I think. Because I think our students could definitely benefit from something like that.

James: Thank you. Thank you for that. So again, these courses are for everyone. I mean, Deque, my opinion is one of the best out there. So they are very serious about and they have all these different topics and I've taken several of the courses, not the deep dive like the programming one, but I've taken some of the basic ones in this really, really rich and deep documentation of how they document things. And I refer to them all the time if I'm talking to consultant with so on. Any other comments about Deque? Any negative positive comments? No comments. So I believe I'll be followed by Brooke.

Nate Evans: Hold it in both hands. The handheld mic is really sensitive so we can hear the-

Brooke Knapp: Like this.

Nate Evans: No, just...

Brooke Knapp: Oh, in one hand. I don't need another excuse to be loud. I'm double mic'd. Okay. I'm going to talk a little bit about SLA service. I know I've talked about it before, but I specifically want to share a really good success story that we've had with one of our students lately. It relates to some of what Jeremy said about sustainability and such. So our model is if our department or right now I think we have a few departments wants to sign an SLA with us, which means that we'll sign a student. We can hire a student for a specific amount of hours that, that college or department has budgeted.

Brooke Knapp: And then they go through our training process. And normally we ask that department to give us a prioritization list of their courses that they'd like to have worked through. And then we have the student do a lot of the remediation effort and then so that the faculty have less efforts themselves. But right now we're putting a lot of effort on training faculty. Even though we've had a lot of success in doing the remediation work to create a sustainable environment, we really do need to have our faculty train.

Brooke Knapp: So our really good success stories, we have a SLA with the pharmacology and toxicology department. And what I told to the student is I made sure that we had initial meetings with these professors whose remediation work we are going to go through. And I put a lot of emphasis on saying, "Okay, when you go in and you talk to this professor, ask them about their work." Because a lot of times they really just want to talk about what they're doing. And that helps the student to understand like what the goals or outcomes of this class is. So that he can keep that in mind. He or them or her while they're doing this remediation work.

Brooke Knapp: And a lot of the times what we've found is that faculty don't really have an issue with accessibility but really don't have a great knowledge of technology sometimes. So you say just take the five to 10 minutes to sit down and go through some of these easy quick tips in word or PowerPoint and show them how to do even the simplest things that might come easy to us but might be difficult for them to understand. We've found a lot of success in that because a lot of the times they're like, wow, I can do this on my own. But they might've not understood Microsoft word or PowerPoint or whatever it might be in the first place. So a lot of their hesitancy to doing accessibility was just their lack of technology and knowledge in technology.

Brooke Knapp: So that's been a really great success story on that student, has had really good partnerships with two professors so far. They're extremely responsive to all the work he's done in the class. If he has any questions on alternative texts or whatever it might be, he gets really quick responses because he's built a relationship with that professor, but also given them extra tools outside of accessibility that they can use and invest back into student success.

Brooke Knapp: So the next I just want to talk about legal updates. Nothing in particular except for yay Domino's on that case. So that went our way. These are just some of the blogs and websites I go to for legal updates. Not all legal updates but just for some articles that are out there about accessibility, a web, a blog, that's a really good website. They put out a lot of information. They put out a lot of statistics as well. Karl Groves is, he spent like, I think I want to say he's 20 years in IT consulting, but does a lot of work in accessibility and post a lot of really useful articles, especially on the web development side of things.

Brooke Knapp: Lainey Feingold, she is in disability law so she posts a lot of updates on law suits and law cases surrounding disability. She's also a great resource. She'll break down some of those big legal cases into something that's a lot more understandable. So that's a good place if you just want a quick overview.

Brooke Knapp: Access and inclusion through technology, that's a site that gathers a bunch of different blogs and articles that are out there about accessibility and post them all in one central place. So if you're just looking just to browse, that's a really good place to start as well. And then LinkedIn, if you have LinkedIn, start following people who are in the field of accessibility. A lot of times there's a lot of inter sharing there. So those are some of the places I look, I don't know if anyone has anything different they want to add? Okay, cool.

Kate: Thanks Brooke.

Nate Evans: Awesome. I just want to double check our slides. I think that's what we have done today. The next meeting? Charlene and Gabrielle, do you want to give us a little, what do we expect from this? Is it like the star ship enterprise where we're at right now? The room we're going to, what do you want to do at this meeting?

Charlene: Laminate stuff.

Nate Evans: We can laminate stuff for sure. I don't know. I think what we would want to do is talk about how we went from having a might not talk, I'm not talking loud enough.

Charlene: One for the recording. One for the room.

Nate Evans: So weird. God. Oh, okay. This needs some duct tape or something. I may have [inaudible 00:39:25]. Okay. Anyways I think we started off on a really good path and we had some great ideas at the beginning of our five-year plan. But I'll be the first to admit it, it fell down. We struggled quite a bit getting buy-in from faculties and I believe that we've turned that around and I think that's what we'd like to talk about.

Gabrielle: Yeah. I also invited our web developer person for the college of ed who's in charge of all the accessibility stuff, so he'll be able to give an update on that side of things, whereas I'll just be giving an update on the core side of things and what our current path is and our projection so to say. And then just where we're at as a college going from zero to 60 in these last couple months.

Nate Evans: Fantastic. Thank you for letting me put you on the spot there. Are there any other topics that you all would like to talk about at the next meeting?

Gabrielle: Yay.

Nate Evans: Yeah. I've got three microphones in my hand and I'm running all over. These two. There you go

Speaker 19: This isn't necessarily for the next meeting, but I just came back from an event apart and there was a speaker there named Derek Featherstone and he was amazing. He's got lots of online videos. But he had 400 people in the Palm of his hand, the entire time he was talking about inclusivity and his topic was inclusivity by design.

Nate Evans: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Any other? This is dumb. I'm putting one of these down.

Speaker 20: [inaudible 00:41:33] All right. Thank you. Okay. So I know we mentioned this last meeting. And I had a conversation with Nate as well because you sent me what the University of Colorado was doing with this website, but I really liked the idea of a site that shows all the different web teaching and learning tools that are being used at all the colleges. So then faculty can go to that site, or instructional design individuals can go to that site and pick tools that work for certain learning outcomes that they want to achieve.

Speaker 20: So then yeah, we can all like look at my list of tools that I've already gone through the process with the accessibility team and purchasing. And then I can go look at like the college of education and see what they've used and we don't have to go through that process again for certain tools. So there is a way that we could help you do that as a group. I feel like if we all work together on that, it might be something we can accomplish easier than just saying, "Hey Nate, this would be great. Can you work on it?" If there's a way somehow that we as a group could work on that would be great.

Speaker 20: Would that be beneficial?

Nate Evans: Seeing a lot of heads. Okay. We should put that on the agenda.

Blythe White: Okay. Actually to respond to that, maybe it would be a really good idea to hook up with I teach MSU, which is a new, rather than doing our own thing. We could have a whole playlist, essentially a whole channel devoted to accessibility within the colleges. It is an educator resource for educators by educators meant broadly, not just faculty, faculty staff, anyone who's involved in student success. So people in the hub are the primary drivers behind that. And it just may be worth combining efforts in that.

Nate Evans: Again, reach out to McKenna on that. I bet she would be a good contact.

Blythe White: Or talk to Eric.

Nate Evans: Eric too. Okay. Good. Good. Anything else before we take out? We're 15 minutes early. There's lots of bagels down at Panera. You guys have a great weekend. Thanks for coming.